I'm sure you've heard it but one that we use a bit is the enterprise of God.
 

Given I spend a fair bit of time with people that are inclined towards/attracted to anarchism, I'm not a fan of 'the reign of God' or 'the rule of God'. I can't say I'm personally a fan of 'agenda' or 'enterprise', but they could be useful terms depending on who I was talking to.

I like the terms 'transform' and 'dream' - 'dream' because it doesn't seem to have the power dynamics attached to it that some other words have, and because it probably appeals to the hippy in me (and would be a useful word to use in communication with many of my 'non-Christian' friends)

I really like "the economy of God", which I initially stole from Marcus Curnow, but is used by many others (more famous than he and I!) as well. It's a particularly helpful phrase in the circles I move in, which are very socialist and arnarchist.
 

i talk about trying to create and be part of the kind of community Jesus had in mind when he was on earth.

its not 'clear', but it does foster more conversation

...oh really? so what would that be like?... well let me tell you.

'rule and reign' works for my own understanding as I have always seen a kingdom as an entity - a noun rather than a verb.
 

Barb, can you extrapolate a little? I can guess where you guys got it from, namely Col and Paul, and I know what *they* mean when they say it but I would love to hear how it is interpreted in your community. Can you elaborate?

Bec, thinking out loud here, but if God has a dream, and he is trying to work that dream out, is that not an imposition? Is that not God's agenda? I have been thinking about this allot, in a number of contexts, we just do not take to being told what to do. Personal freedom is (imho) one of the biggest idols in western culture. Do we not cope with those sorts of terms because it cuts to our sinful core? Don't hit me!

Hamo, I think I hear you right. If I do, does it go something like:
Not a Christian person - "So Hamo, what's God like?"
Hamo - "Come and I'll show you."

Also, when you say rule and reign work, what do you actually say when you are teaching etc? What words and phrases around those two to pad them out?
 

i think it is God's agenda, but its not something he agressively imposes. Matt 13 suggests mustard seed, starts small and grows organically and naturally. The Kingdom of God gradually emerges in our reality through people like us being like Christ....

I reckon the Kingdom of God is a 'vibe' like off 'The Castle' its is the vibe of Christ. Justice, Mercy, Equality, etc.

Perhaps a bit vague but oh well...
 

This all caught my eye on the ooze home page. I thought I might add my two cents. How about the Culture of God. Kingdoms were the things that were ruled over and shaped the subjects. Now culture is the thing that shapes us very often for better or for worse. So now what God wants is for his culture to shape us.
 

roo: Again, like my comments with Bec, is it just me or do we feel uncomfortable with the idea that God imposes? I think it is necessary because we as powerful Westerners have a tendency to theologise through our grid (der) but if we were to put ourselves in the place of the struggling villager in rural Peru, I would beg God to impose His agenda on the world. The sooner that God sorts things out, life would be a little nicer. Go ahead God, force those wealthy Westerners to share their wealthAs opposed to the Kingdom from our own perspective "Yes Lord, we should share, but let me do it in my own time". Does this make any sense?

Tim: The Ooze? How did you get here from the Ooze?

My concern with culture is that inevitable, again because we theologise through our cultural grid, what will get communicated? I mean this question is a significant one in the whole emergent debate, Christendom shaped by the culture of moderity.

If we use the term culture in the same way that people talk about the culture of a workplace, yeah, actually, just toying with it right now, I can see that it can kind of work.

The question is the broader one when couched in terms of the "culture wars" etc.
 

hey steve, in the words of Bono 'we hear it every christmas but hope and history wont rhyme'

i think that history shows us that God isn't imposing his kingdom, but rather has planted the seed and is allowing it to grow.

I want him to impose it, dont get me wrong, sheesh, who wouldnt? but it just doesn't seem to be happening.

Kinda like the jubliee, he even commanded it, but still the jews never actually celebrated it, and God didnt enforce it, and i believe the jubliee is an image of the kingdom of god.
 

Steve,
hope i'm not being difficult here, but wondering about your comment on the critical pradigmatic 'missional' shift being from thinking in terms of eccelsiology to kindgom.

I've heard lots of people, from various church backgrounds, talk about 'kingdom' with various meanings.

I'm thinking that for 'something to be categorised "missional"' we ought to focus on that term, not a different (but still important) one like 'kingdom'.

Apart from clarity, my concern is the focus can all too easily shift from the practical task of doing mission.

A second related issue for me personally is that 'kingdom' seems to big and grand for me to grasp. And I'm not sure I can. But mission is something that is specifc to this world and my calling.

Hope that makes some sense. What do you think?
 

i tend to think of the Kingdom of God being about the redemtion of all things, something christop has mentioned to me, the redemption bit that is.
i don't know if that is right but it makes some sense to me, that the Kingom of God is about everything being brought back to the way God intended.
 

Out of all of them, I like Dream of God or even something like The Vision of God. Like this is what he would like to see happen but its up to us to play our part in the grand picture from the smallest to the largest part. All parts being equal and necessary.
 

Stephen...

I'm digging 'God's transforming dream'. It gives the vibe that God isn't totally black and white, but as he loves us and we interact with him, his dream is fulfilled.
 

I usually think of it as God's network.
 

Been thinking about this a bit of late...

Something along the lines of "the banquet of the true president" kind of captures the political tones of the statement, but is a bit passive.

I wrote an essay on "triune community", ie. participation in the life of God as the kingdom, but that doesn't seem communicate well. Maybe it could?

the idea of "dance" as participation/party/rythym/beauty is a good metaphor.

The great thing about the phrase is it's many dimensions...
 

Steve - I wouldn't hit you!! ;P

My dislike (though that's probably too strong a word) of terms like 'kingdom' and attraction to terms like 'dream' has more to do with the popular agenda than with God's...it's not the notion of an imposition that is unattractive (though I think we're invited to join in the Dreaming, rather than have it imposed upon us). What I find rather unattractive is that they tap into notions of Empire, what power looks like. God's Dream doesn't invoke images of Bush's colonial agenda, but God's Reign does (at least for me and many of the people I hang out with).

I haven't really thought about it a great deal, however, as I tend to find myself taking the approach Hamo does...I can't think of an occasion when I've had to use a 'name' rather than a lengthy description (mind you, I'm known to babble on...)
 

I meant Bush's postcolonial agenda...
 

I don't like anything with the word "Kingdom" because it is not something we experience with any great gutso! Think of the kingdom (and the reign and rule for that matter) of our Queen. It's pretty limp and doesn't really do anything for me.

Reign and rule are probably more accurate in terms of translation though.

But, Jesus says in John 10:10, "I have come that you may have LIFE and have it more abundantly." I'm not really sure how to articulate it yet, and my bunch are working through it for the rest of the year, but my guess is that a more relevent way of speaking of the Kingdom for mission today would have to incorporate something about the rich, abundant, liberating LIFE of God.

Good challenging stuff Mr Said.
 

You might find useful info here
About the kingdom of god.
The message preached was "repent" for "the kingdom of god is at hand". The word repent in true translation means: to think differently. Initially the Jews of the law of Moses were being asked to "think differently" because the Kingdom of God [or better known], "day of the Lord" [Jehovah]was at hand or imminent. But the Jewish leaders could not accept that Jesus was the Lord of "the day of the Lord", better understood as the Messiah. The Jews thought the Messiah would save the nation from the Romans, when actually, Jesus had come to set them free from sin, which was the cause of their enslavement to Rome. God blinded them to this fact so that they would be incited to kill Jesus. God was the hand of Abraham's faith symbolically and Jesus was Isaac. The physical manifestation of Abrahams faith in God a Spirit. The message preached to the gentiles was also "think differently". Not to think differently about the Law of Moses that you know, but think differently about this God you don't yet know. The King James incorrectly uses the word repent often. Essentially the message means: Think diffently about everything you know, because God in Jesus Christ has come to set you free from the curse of sin by disobedience for Jews and ignorance for Gentiles, by taking the price of sin away for Jews and gentiles by offering himself as a sacrifice as the institution of a new covenant so that anyone entering by faith into that covenant will be covered by the effect of the blood that instituted Christ's law of redemption. Where God put His name into the Temple in Jerusalem, Jesus puts His Spirit into the people not the building. Where God required circumcision, Jesus requires faith and baptism as the sign of the acceptance of terms. Where God once required sacrifices and works, Jesus requires works by faith. Where the "Kingdom" was in the name of Jehovah in the Temple at Jerusalem, now it is in the name of Jesus in the believers. Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is within you. That Kingdom is a spiritual realm. The people of Christ walk on the earth WITH THE KINGDOM IN THEM. Hope this is useful.