{neurotribe.net}: ::Audioblog - Podcast with Alan Hirsch

Comments:

I agree with Al on the nature of the US church in general. Worship styles and ecclesiological patterns do tend to be as he described them. Homogeneity to the existing pattern is huge. The Church Growth people have won mindshare when it comes to the GOAL of mission work. In the US for the most part, it is to add people to MY congregation. There exist however, many churches that seek Kingdom growth. Because they are NOT saying, “Look at us. See how big we are. Come to our seminar and learn to be just like us,” they tend to not get noticed. For one example check out Northwood Church (northwoodchurch.org) and their global mission idea Glocal Net (glocal.net). They have started over 80 churches around the world. Over 40,000 people are in the Kingdom because of their efforts. They are Southern Baptist so they tend to collect people into know church structures and worship patterns,at least here in the US. So generally, including my example, Al’s argument holds up about the US church: we tend to collect people into buildings.

# posted by

David : 11:32 PM

Hi Stephen/Al, UK take: because of the greater level of visibility (louder voice)thru blogs, sites, roundtables etc the largely 'existing' paradigm emerging churches (attractional etc) appear to represent what is going on here in the UK; my research strongly suggests otherwise. In the background, in the world of non-blogdom, there is a grass roots incipient movement taking shape that is wholly missional in it's ecclesiology. Aimed at birthing possible CPMs. This is happening amongst very ordinary people who on the whole are not interested in shouting about what they are up to, but are just getting on with life and Kingdom quietly, and infecting others as they go with a similar vision. So I would suggest that below the surface things over here are pretty similar to you guys.

# posted by

alexander : 12:01 AM

Just a note: I can't claim to be an expert on either the US or UK scene so please forgive the generalizations. However, I have been in both contexts on numerous times looking at what God is doing in EC circles. I can only observe patterns that are discernable to a loving travellor--and I am that. I do love both UK and the US.

I also think some of the most amazing CPM's are coming out of the States. But I will say that most of them tend to take on a boomer'ish/modernist style and few have taken emerging global cultures seriously. In other words, in my experience they are not part of the EC phenomenon, but movements in-themselves.

# posted by

Alan Hirsch : 9:06 AM

Dave and AC, we would be really interested to hear about the other kinds of expresions of the ec in both the UK and the US. I have made it my personal mission to try and make sure that some of the significant stuff in Oz gets airplay on my blog (using my blog power to liberate the silent voices so to speak), and I would be really keen to make this blog available for the more silent expressions in the US and the UK. Could you get me some written reflections, photo's, even audioposts? I would be more than happy to post here.

# posted by

Stephen : 10:26 AM

Thanks Stephen and Alan. I really enjoyed listening to this audioblog.

True, 'rave culture' and 'rave worship' didn't take off here like in the UK. I know quite a few people involved establishing alt worship as expressions of missional communities in the Uniting Church. I see them as context-based expressions of worship that relate to particular arts-focused sub cultures. By and large though, Australians are not into "alternative culture".

Your wondering about the lack of published missional theologians is provocative in a good way. Our small market in Australia tends to put people off publishing with books. That's why the blogosphere has become so important for emerging theologians. It's why I've developed www.godpost.blogspot.com and www.postkiwi.blogspot.com

Dean Drayton published this year, "Which Gospel? Three New Testament Perspectives.", with Mediacom. We need more like that. Hopefully the papers presented at the Missiology conference in September will lead to more authors coming to the fore.

# posted by

Duncan : 11:45 PM

Another Australian writer worth noting is Mark Strom, who's now principal of Bible College of New Zealand in Auckland. He wrote "Reframing Paul: Conversations in Grace & Community" back in 2000, published by IVP.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/sstrom/

# posted by

Duncan : 11:24 AM

stephen hi! thanks for posting these interviews with alan and others. i have enjoyed them. i've e-mailed alan but thought i should say hi and leave a comment here. i do think part of the aus challenge and gift to us is to challenge us about being missional - thanks for that. keep giving it to us. but i think it's a mistake to lump the UK and US together saying that they are shaped by alt worship. they are very different contexts. and i think what we would see as alt worship is pretty rare in the US. and there is a ton of emerging church stuff in the UK that isn't alt worship. and as AC suggests plenty that may be under the radar. so i guess it's all pretty complex. i also think that the aus scene contains a lot more than the forge missional model - i see a lot of other emerging stuff going on that is also encouraging. i think we all need each other (not in a dependent way but in a way that we more truely see who god is as we see his image reflected in parts of his body round the world). but do be careful downunder that you don't get superior... that's my only fear which i expressed to alan in an e-mail. humility, offer what you have as a gift... this isn't meant as a criticism but a gentle encouragement. blessings. keep sharing the stories...

# posted by

jonny : 6:42 PM

hey stephen. thanks for the great blog and getting hirschy (and hopefully debs as well) into blogging. i'm following this conversation closely as i am an aussie missionary in the US. i guess i am one of the few people who have attended a Forge intensive AND several Emergent gatherings. i've lived here about six years but was grown in the jesus-people soil of God's Squad/St Martins (Melbourne). i've been blessed by conversations with people like jonny as well as our beloved hirschy and brian mclaren and my take at this stage is simply a sense that we need to respect one another's particular missional context. i see this is happening but all of us are regularly tempted to misread what someone else is up to, simply because we don't quite see the subtleties of culture. anyway, that's as much a confession is it is an exhortation.
jonny has a recent post about india that shows this struggle.

btw, ken and leanne are heroes for us too. we had some good times while they served the missio dei alongside us at communality.

oh....any forge-ites coming to greenbelt this year. would love to see some antipodeans.

# posted by

geoff : 8:44 PM

Hey Jonny (Baker?), I hear what you are saying and I agree. It is amazing that one of the things we hoped we were walking away from in terms of the boomer expression of church was ministry as extension of the leaders ego and suprise suprise, it's still with us. It is amazing that God uses people I find continually.

As Al mentioned, we needed to make some comment about the Carson book from a pastoral perspective. It could potentially be very destructive for the emc scene in Oz. I was really suprised that it had the effect that it did. Selah.

Geoff, is that the Geoff who is based in the US who I met at a Forge intensive at Lilydale? You had a beard at that stage? Check out my picture and see if it was me that you met.

I hear you too.

Can you extrapolate what you mean when you use the term "missie dei" because that is also the name of our missional community. I would be so excited to hear that there is another community with the same name.

As far as Greenbelt is concerned, I dunno of anyone heading over. I'll keep you posted.

# posted by

Stephen : 9:48 AM

hey stephen,
yes, the very same Geoff from the intensive at BCV in Oct. '03. i was bearded and long-haired back then.
i remember meeting you very well and was sorry we didn't have more time to talk.

as for missio dei....i was using it in the very general, cosmic, too much fancy book-learnin' sense. Our community is called Communality.

# posted by

geoff : 9:10 PM

Diddo Geoff, sad we didn't get more time to talk. You heading on back to Oz? How long you planning on hanging out in the US? In general, wasap?

# posted by

Stephen : 3:50 PM

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